12:21 ThomasWaldmann: how are different wiki markups handling # char in page names vs. # char for separation of a target anchor?
12:22 ThomasWaldmann: e.g. [[Problem #1]] vs. [[LongPage#someanchor]]
12:23 kensanata: As far as Oddmuse is concerned, such a name would be illegal.
12:25 ThomasWaldmann: i had a glance into the creole spec, but they don't seem to address that problem
12:26 ThomasWaldmann: kensanata: so now way to have # in a pagename somehow?
12:26 ThomasWaldmann: s/now/no/
12:26 ThomasWaldmann: what does oddmuse do with foo#bar#baz as target?
12:27 kensanata: That's page foo with anchor bar#baz and handled by the browser.
12:28 ThomasWaldmann had the vague idea of just splitting the rightmost # part away as anchor
12:29 ThomasWaldmann: so it could be [[Problem #1#]], the anchor would be empty in that case and the #1 would be escaped as usual for pagenames
12:29 kensanata: I think the CGI script doesn't get anything to the right of the first # — the browser handles it.
12:30 kensanata: You would have to use foo%23bar#baz — then the script gets to see foo#bar as a parameter where as the browser handles the jumping to the anchor named baz.
12:31 ThomasWaldmann: that's what I mean with escaping
12:32 kensanata: Ah. Now I see what nefarious short cuts you're trying to do...
12:32 ThomasWaldmann: 😀
12:33 kensanata: [[Problem #1]] — [[I love C#]] — [[C# Problem #1]] — [[C# Problems#1]]
12:33 ThomasWaldmann: it's maybe not that nefarious as # is invalid in a name afair
12:33 kensanata: I'd say only the last one of my examples involves a named anchor.
12:33 kensanata: So context (preceding whitespace) must be important, I think.
12:34 ThomasWaldmann: yes, but that is introducing language semantics
12:34 kensanata: Indeed, and we are talking about semantics, no?
12:34 kensanata: 😊
12:34 ThomasWaldmann: of links, but not of english
12:34 kensanata: But... but...
12:35 kensanata: There is one symbol (#) and two ways to interpret it. What does a # mean? This is semantics.
12:35 ThomasWaldmann: also, what about the page about cpp instructions, like #define? 😊
12:36 ThomasWaldmann: yeah, that is the semantics of how to create the link wanted
12:36 kensanata: I guess all I'm saying is that figuring out whether a # is intended to be part of a pagename or not is a tricky problem.
12:36 ThomasWaldmann: but assuming that there must be a blank before the # is just for the usual spoken english usage of #
12:37 kensanata: Oh, I do agree that my proposed heuristic is less than perfect.
12:37 kensanata: Which is why Oddmuse doesn't try to solve this problem. 😊
12:37 ThomasWaldmann: yes, it's tricky, that's why I am asking 😊
12:38 MartinCleaver has joined
12:38 ThomasWaldmann: for moin I have to change something, as for interwiki it currently "thinks" that foo#bar is a pagename, while for internal page links it thinks it is a page with an anchor
12:40 ThomasWaldmann tries to find the C# page on WP
12:40 ThomasWaldmann: For technical reasons, C# redirects here. For uses of C#, see C-sharp.
12:40 ThomasWaldmann: here == C
12:41 ThomasWaldmann: ok, so a # at the end of the pagename is obviously not possible with MediaWiki
12:48 ThomasWaldmann: TheSheep: does hatta allow # in pagenames?
12:50 TheSheep: no
21:37 marclaporte: ThomasWaldmann: I have no answer for you but some related stuff we are struggling with : http://dev.tiki.org/Character+substitutions
22:08 ThomasWaldmann: marclaporte: thanks
22:09 ThomasWaldmann: btw, we had that space > _ thing and later we had to remove it again which was a pita
22:10 ThomasWaldmann: nowadays I try to do as little "magic" as possible
22:11 marclaporte: can you tell me more about space > _ thing ?
22:11 ThomasWaldmann: well, I did a similar thing a while ago as you have on that page
22:12 ThomasWaldmann: i also had the idea "lets look how mw handles it"
22:12 ThomasWaldmann: then I introduced " " > "_" (and "_" > "_") so that URLs are prettier
22:12 ThomasWaldmann: no %20
22:13 ThomasWaldmann: later I had to map filesystem files into the wiki page namespace
22:13 ThomasWaldmann: kind of "virtual pages", a file browser within the wiki gui
22:14 ThomasWaldmann: of course there are files like foo_bar.txt, but also "foo bar.txt"
22:14 ThomasWaldmann: and the names are given
22:14 ThomasWaldmann: in the worst case, you could even have "foo_bar baz.txt"
22:15 ThomasWaldmann: so confusing (unifying) " " and "_" was not really helpful
22:16 ThomasWaldmann: thus I removed that again. it was a pita because after throwing that together, you can not automatically decide what it was or should be, thus the conversion had a manual step with the user deciding whether he wants a " " or "_"
22:17 ThomasWaldmann: (and even without that "fs browser", we had to revert that because soon we'll have unified wiki pages and file items)
22:19 ThomasWaldmann: the idea of prettier urls became a bit less important recently btw, because some browsers nowadays render those urls prettier and transform %20 to space themselves
22:19 ThomasWaldmann: it can be a problem for c&p though if you do it wrong
22:19 marclaporte: I think I noticed this in FF3
22:20 ThomasWaldmann: yeah
22:20 ThomasWaldmann: some mac browser did that before
22:20 ThomasWaldmann: and if you really want _, you just have to use _ 😊
22:21 ThomasWaldmann: btw, TheSheep had a good idea on #moin:
22:22 ThomasWaldmann: because [[target#anchor]] is a bit problematic with targets including #,
22:22 ThomasWaldmann: [[target|label|#anchor]] seems to be the best long term solution
22:23 ThomasWaldmann: that 3rd segment of link syntax is already used by us for:
22:23 ThomasWaldmann: foo=bar (will get into <a> tag as attr)
22:23 ThomasWaldmann: &key=val (will get into query string)
22:23 ThomasWaldmann: #name (fragment, new)
22:24 ThomasWaldmann: I found that having this separate is not only cleaner, but that if you handle it together with the page name,
22:25 ThomasWaldmann: things can go wrong if you mix it with a query string:
22:26 ThomasWaldmann: .../pagename#fragment?key=val is incorrect, rfc says it must be .../pagename?